Comments on: Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/ Aaron Leventhal's accessibility blog Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:13:02 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: david http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-129 david Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:32:28 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-129 I agree with: "Would it not make more sense for Mozilla to concentrate on the version of Firefox that aims to be a native Apple app? (Camino)". Regarding porting nvda to osx, I would not use a screen reader just for one app so there would have to be highly compelling reasons for me to use and support another screen reader on the Mac besides ff. I agree with:
“Would it not make more sense for Mozilla to concentrate on the version of Firefox that aims to be a native Apple app? (Camino)”.

Regarding porting nvda to osx, I would not use a screen reader just for one app so there would have to be highly compelling reasons for me to use and support another screen reader on the Mac besides ff.

]]> By: aaronlev http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-124 aaronlev Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:25:26 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-124 Alastair, it's the always the web content that's hardest to make accessible. That said, the Mozilla team is planning to give VoiceOver compatibility another shot this year. Alastair, it’s the always the web content that’s hardest to make accessible.

That said, the Mozilla team is planning to give VoiceOver compatibility another shot this year.

]]> By: AlastairC http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-123 AlastairC Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:46:57 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-123 Presumably it would be a lot of effort for Apple to match the accessibility API they have for Cocoa apps with Mozilla's framework? Would it not make more sense for Mozilla to concentrate on the version of Firefox that aims to be a native Apple app? (Camino) The interface for Camino works fine with Voiceover (from a quick test), you just can't get to the web page! Presumably it would be a lot of effort for Apple to match the accessibility API they have for Cocoa apps with Mozilla’s framework?

Would it not make more sense for Mozilla to concentrate on the version of Firefox that aims to be a native Apple app? (Camino)

The interface for Camino works fine with Voiceover (from a quick test), you just can’t get to the web page!

]]> By: Henri Sivonen http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-33 Henri Sivonen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:23:07 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-33 The story goes that Apple has per-developer technology evangelists who care if you do something cool with the developer API they are tasked with evangelizing. Also, Mac developers say that when an ISV becomes 'important' enough, Apple assigns someone to manage developer support relationship with the ISV. One would think that Firefox as a product and Mozilla Corporation and IBM as companies would be 'important' enough to merit the attention of a VoiceOver developer evangelist who could poke the VoiceOver team for answers. I wonder if individual Mozilla contributors haven't seemed to have enough clout from the point of view of Apple developer relations and if being more corporate about the liaison would better match the way Apple runs developer relations. The story goes that Apple has per-developer technology evangelists who care if you do something cool with the developer API they are tasked with evangelizing. Also, Mac developers say that when an ISV becomes ‘important’ enough, Apple assigns someone to manage developer support relationship with the ISV.

One would think that Firefox as a product and Mozilla Corporation and IBM as companies would be ‘important’ enough to merit the attention of a VoiceOver developer evangelist who could poke the VoiceOver team for answers. I wonder if individual Mozilla contributors haven’t seemed to have enough clout from the point of view of Apple developer relations and if being more corporate about the liaison would better match the way Apple runs developer relations.

]]> By: Firefox and VoiceOver - the Mozilla perspective | ATMac http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-29 Firefox and VoiceOver - the Mozilla perspective | ATMac Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:57:44 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-29 [...] within the Firefox developer team. He recently wrote a detailed article about the problems with Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver and why these are so difficult to resolve. There are both technical and political difficulties to [...] [...] within the Firefox developer team. He recently wrote a detailed article about the problems with Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver and why these are so difficult to resolve. There are both technical and political difficulties to [...]

]]> By: Phill http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-28 Phill Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:56:35 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-28 hmm, reading the posts from Aaron, Pratik, and others seems to put much of the problem on Apple's priorities. Apple is both a single company and a bunch of separate dev teams. Apple has separate pressures (priorities) on OSX, VoiceOver, Safari/WebKit, and all the apps. As Aaron points out, all the pressure points are at the intersections or support points between the platform, browser, and screen reader - ignoring the authoring tools and other support stuff for a moment. Even if we get Apple to open source VoiceOver or port NVDA to OS X, Apple's OS X team still has its pressures and priorities which are not going to magically go away or be reduced. One browser and one screen reader on the OS X platform should REDUCE the bugs and need for co-development, but it doesn't change the priority - as Pratik observed. What's the motivation to change the priority? Reducing the workload isn't in my opinion a way to increase the priority, it may actually backfire and reduce the resources in that area to be able to accomplish even less. I agree with the approach of making VoiceOver open source which seems more efficient than porting NVDA in the short term (maybe in the long term they could be co-developed). But the real issue is to raise the priority of accessibility at APPLE specifically related to OS X, VoiceOver, and Safari/WebKit to keep up with the open source capabilities on the other platforms - or join forces and go open source on VoiceOver and better support Firefox. Well, how do we raise the priority? $6 million would go a long way towards that! hmm, reading the posts from Aaron, Pratik, and others seems to put much of the problem on Apple’s priorities. Apple is both a single company and a bunch of separate dev teams. Apple has separate pressures (priorities) on OSX, VoiceOver, Safari/WebKit, and all the apps. As Aaron points out, all the pressure points are at the intersections or support points between the platform, browser, and screen reader – ignoring the authoring tools and other support stuff for a moment. Even if we get Apple to open source VoiceOver or port NVDA to OS X, Apple’s OS X team still has its pressures and priorities which are not going to magically go away or be reduced. One browser and one screen reader on the OS X platform should REDUCE the bugs and need for co-development, but it doesn’t change the priority – as Pratik observed. What’s the motivation to change the priority? Reducing the workload isn’t in my opinion a way to increase the priority, it may actually backfire and reduce the resources in that area to be able to accomplish even less. I agree with the approach of making VoiceOver open source which seems more efficient than porting NVDA in the short term (maybe in the long term they could be co-developed). But the real issue is to raise the priority of accessibility at APPLE specifically related to OS X, VoiceOver, and Safari/WebKit to keep up with the open source capabilities on the other platforms – or join forces and go open source on VoiceOver and better support Firefox. Well, how do we raise the priority? $6 million would go a long way towards that!

]]> By: Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball - Aaron leventhal - The Paciello Group Blog http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-25 Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball - Aaron leventhal - The Paciello Group Blog Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:24:18 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-25 [...] Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball  Aaron Leventhal details the barriers faced in getting the Firefox browser to work with [...] [...] Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball  Aaron Leventhal details the barriers faced in getting the Firefox browser to work with [...]

]]> By: Peng’s links for Friday, 22 August « I’m Just an Avatar http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-23 Peng’s links for Friday, 22 August « I’m Just an Avatar Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:13:44 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-23 [...] Leventhal: Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball. OSX has some nice accessibility tools like their VoiceOver screen reader. Unfortunately [...] [...] Leventhal: Firefox and OS X’s VoiceOver … Reading the Magic 8 Ball. OSX has some nice accessibility tools like their VoiceOver screen reader. Unfortunately [...]

]]> By: Vadi http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-22 Vadi Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:01:21 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-22 It should work, since Apple only uses oss when it's profitable for their platform, and such is the case here. It should work, since Apple only uses oss when it’s profitable for their platform, and such is the case here.

]]> By: Monotonous.org » Blog Archive » Help Apple Help Themselves http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/firefox-and-os-xs-voiceover-reading-the-magic-8-ball/#comment-21 Monotonous.org » Blog Archive » Help Apple Help Themselves Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:31:24 +0000 http://accessgarage.wordpress.com/?p=68#comment-21 [...] to arise. Especially when they offer such sexy and irresistible technology. Aaron Leventhal asks an important one, regarding web accessibility. « Introducing [...] [...] to arise. Especially when they offer such sexy and irresistible technology. Aaron Leventhal asks an important one, regarding web accessibility. « Introducing [...]

]]>